Comments on: The Truth About Click Fraud http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/ Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:46:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: CPCcurmudgeon http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-717 CPCcurmudgeon Thu, 02 Feb 2006 03:00:46 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-717 Hmmm ... Sounds interesting, although I don't know if your study will unearth anything not already known. Or even if it does, if that will cause the SEs and ad networks to change their practices. I don't know how far you've gotten with this, but one thing you might consider doing is getting a sizable group of people to buy ads under different accounts, rather than all under the same account. A rise in clicks to the same account (or small number of accounts) is likely to trigger some click fraud thresholds. Another thing you might do is get volunteers to run your bot on their systems (unless you have a fairly large number of systems you can launch your bot from that are on topologically and geographically dispersed ISPs). You might even sprinkle in some conversions to try to simulate advertisers that get business and fraudulent traffic. In general, I have always thought CPC was a bad business model because it is so easy to defraud. It has always struck me as odd that Google, being a center for technological excellence, would have even implemented CPC in the first place. When the idea was first presented to do CPC at Google, I wonder if the issue of click fraud ever came up, and what things were said in response (and who said them)? I used to work for a search engine, and complained quite vigorously about the dangers of relying on CPC revenue due to click fraud, but they went ahead and implemented it anyway. Hmmm … Sounds interesting, although I don’t know if your study will unearth anything not already known. Or even if it does, if that will cause the SEs and ad networks to change their practices.

I don’t know how far you’ve gotten with this, but one thing you might consider doing is getting a sizable group of people to buy ads under different accounts, rather than all under the same account. A rise in clicks to the same account (or small number of accounts) is likely to trigger some click fraud thresholds. Another thing you might do is get volunteers to run your bot on their systems (unless you have a fairly large number of systems you can launch your bot from that are on topologically and geographically dispersed ISPs). You might even sprinkle in some conversions to try to simulate advertisers that get business and fraudulent traffic.

In general, I have always thought CPC was a bad business model because it is so easy to defraud. It has always struck me as odd that Google, being a center for technological excellence, would have even implemented CPC in the first place. When the idea was first presented to do CPC at Google, I wonder if the issue of click fraud ever came up, and what things were said in response (and who said them)? I used to work for a search engine, and complained quite vigorously about the dangers of relying on CPC revenue due to click fraud, but they went ahead and implemented it anyway.

]]> By: rcjordan http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-716 rcjordan Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:14:43 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-716 boser, ABC's of Google ...the "C" is for click fraud. Is Google Out of Steam? Downgrading its stock to sell, S&P's Scott Kessler explains why the search giant is vulnerable on several fronts. Key among them: click fraud http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jan2006/pi20060119_9734_pi044.htm boser,

ABC’s of Google …the “C” is for click fraud.

Is Google Out of Steam?
Downgrading its stock to sell, S&P’s Scott Kessler explains why the search giant is vulnerable on several fronts. Key among them: click fraud

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jan2006/pi20060119_9734_pi044.htm

]]> By: Justin http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-715 Justin Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:33:00 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-715 I find this discussion to be very interesting. I am new to the whole PPC scene, but as an advertiser AND a publisher I find that there may be a serious problem at hand. I personally think the 20% stat is totally fabricated. I am interested in conducting my own experiment, but I lack the know-how. Actually, all I lack is the click bot, but I have no idea how to get one. Does anyone here actually know how to design one of those? If anyone has any info that might prove this whole click fraud theory true or false...I would definately be interested in hearing about it. Good luck WebGuerrilla! I find this discussion to be very interesting. I am new to the whole PPC scene, but as an advertiser AND a publisher I find that there may be a serious problem at hand. I personally think the 20% stat is totally fabricated. I am interested in conducting my own experiment, but I lack the know-how. Actually, all I lack is the click bot, but I have no idea how to get one. Does anyone here actually know how to design one of those?
If anyone has any info that might prove this whole click fraud theory true or false…I would definately be interested in hearing about it. Good luck WebGuerrilla!

]]> By: BostonScott http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-714 BostonScott Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:23:52 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-714 Having worked on pay per click campaigns for one of the big poker sites, I’ve seen first hand how prevalent click fraud is… especially when it comes to competitive keywords. On these keywords, competitors have become very sophisticated at creating false clicks and charges. The problem is one of transparency. The big PPC companies don’t give you enough insight in to the fraud they catch and block, and exactly what they’re doing to stop fraud. If the PPC companies became more transparent, and helped PPC managers fight fraud themselves, its effect would be reduced. If the estimates are correct… what would happen to Google and Yahoo’s stocks if they completely eradicated click fraud? If their revenues went down by 30%? I’m no conspiracy theorist, but I don’t expect the click fraud issue to be addressed any time soon. I wonder if the market has factored “click fraud� in to Google and Yahoo’s stock price yet? Since I own stock in both… I better keep my mouth shut. Having worked on pay per click campaigns for one of the big poker sites, I’ve seen first hand how prevalent click fraud is… especially when it comes to competitive keywords. On these keywords, competitors have become very sophisticated at creating false clicks and charges.

The problem is one of transparency. The big PPC companies don’t give you enough insight in to the fraud they catch and block, and exactly what they’re doing to stop fraud. If the PPC companies became more transparent, and helped PPC managers fight fraud themselves, its effect would be reduced.

If the estimates are correct… what would happen to Google and Yahoo’s stocks if they completely eradicated click fraud? If their revenues went down by 30%? I’m no conspiracy theorist, but I don’t expect the click fraud issue to be addressed any time soon. I wonder if the market has factored “click fraud� in to Google and Yahoo’s stock price yet? Since I own stock in both… I better keep my mouth shut.

]]> By: geoff wright http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-713 geoff wright Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:28:55 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-713 The acid test has to be how does tracking CPC URL conversion performance compare against the general home page URL conversion per Xn clicks. If the site is or was ( before it's owners started paying cpc) reasonably embedded in the SEs and the conversion rates per thousand clicks are significantly different time after time then the case is made, and the crime is fraud. I can't think of any other area of business in the world where the supplier has such uncontrolled opportunity to abuse the consumer and supplier alike, a fairytale cash flow model. This arrogance and stupidity is the thing that will kill internet commerce not tricks or clicks by competitors. That sort of thing has always been fair in love and war.! If you hold your nerve you will be bound to make a significant contribution to the future of e commerce. Good on yer Geoff The acid test has to be how does tracking CPC URL conversion performance compare against the general home page URL conversion per Xn clicks.
If the site is or was ( before it’s owners started paying cpc) reasonably embedded in the SEs and the conversion rates per thousand clicks are significantly different time after time then the case is made, and the crime is fraud.
I can’t think of any other area of business in the world where the supplier has such uncontrolled opportunity to abuse the consumer and supplier alike, a fairytale cash flow model. This arrogance and stupidity is the thing that will kill internet commerce not tricks or clicks by competitors. That sort of thing has always been fair in love and war.!
If you hold your nerve you will be bound to make a significant contribution to the future of e commerce.

Good on yer
Geoff

]]> By: Brian Mark http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-712 Brian Mark Sat, 17 Dec 2005 06:07:49 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-712 Greg, drop me an email. I've talked with you at SES a few times and would love to do a panel showing the results we can collectively gather. I would be willing to try just about anything to see what turns up. Doing the Shopping Search Tactics panels isn't as exciting as it was the first time. A panel on clickfraud, that could be fun. Anyway, get in touch and we'll work something out. Greg, drop me an email. I’ve talked with you at SES a few times and would love to do a panel showing the results we can collectively gather. I would be willing to try just about anything to see what turns up.

Doing the Shopping Search Tactics panels isn’t as exciting as it was the first time. A panel on clickfraud, that could be fun.

Anyway, get in touch and we’ll work something out.

]]> By: Search Engines Web http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-711 Search Engines Web Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:00:01 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-711 Several factors are forefront when detecting potential fraudulent Clicks: -- The abundance of specific IP Address during a given time period... -- The Abundance of same CLASS C IP addresses during a given time... -- The length of time an IP Address Stayed on the page... -- Did the IP Address - RETURN back to Google, and re-clicked? -- The Referrer Logs indicating the specific KEYWORDED SERPs the Click Came from... <strong>Many tracking/ stats software can certainly, successfully offer this information - and allow ALL Website owners to evaluate any suspicions!</strong> Several factors are forefront when detecting potential fraudulent Clicks:

– The abundance of specific IP Address during a given time period…

– The Abundance of same CLASS C IP addresses during a given time…

– The length of time an IP Address Stayed on the page…

– Did the IP Address – RETURN back to Google, and re-clicked?

– The Referrer Logs indicating the specific KEYWORDED SERPs the Click Came from…

Many tracking/ stats software can certainly, successfully offer this information – and allow ALL Website owners to evaluate any suspicions!

]]> By: seo consultant http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-710 seo consultant Tue, 13 Dec 2005 02:37:17 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-710 I agree with what Janeth says - that it is not a doomsday yet. Click froud seems to me a modern version of throwing away the junk mail. There is so much waste in every marketing strategy. I agree with what Janeth says – that it is not a doomsday yet. Click froud seems to me a modern version of throwing away the junk mail. There is so much waste in every marketing strategy.

]]> By: » Scraper Sites and SE Ambiguity: What is Your Site’s Reading Level? - Stuntdubl - SEO Consultant http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-702 » Scraper Sites and SE Ambiguity: What is Your Site’s Reading Level? - Stuntdubl - SEO Consultant Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:52:17 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-702 [...] I think G has realized that some things that seem detrimental may have certain benefits associated with them as well. I’m sure the web spam team doesn’t like scrapers (and I agree with them), but if they investors (or board for that matter) knew about them would they really care, or would it be seen as a nice added short term revenue stream? I won’t add fuel to the tin hat fire, but I don’t think scrapers are all that different than click fraud, when left to the eyes of someone outside the search space (especially if they see THEIR ad on a sh*t site). It’s going to take a long time for the ROI of advertisers to dip low enough for them to realize all the trash that they don’t need to be paying for shouldn’t be considered a cost of doing business. [...] [...] I think G has realized that some things that seem detrimental may have certain benefits associated with them as well. I’m sure the web spam team doesn’t like scrapers (and I agree with them), but if they investors (or board for that matter) knew about them would they really care, or would it be seen as a nice added short term revenue stream? I won’t add fuel to the tin hat fire, but I don’t think scrapers are all that different than click fraud, when left to the eyes of someone outside the search space (especially if they see THEIR ad on a sh*t site). It’s going to take a long time for the ROI of advertisers to dip low enough for them to realize all the trash that they don’t need to be paying for shouldn’t be considered a cost of doing business. [...]

]]> By: Rob http://www.3dogmedia.com/click-fraud/#comment-709 Rob Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:13:55 +0000 http://www.gregboser.com/2005/12/01/click-fraud/#comment-709 I think the idea is a good one and I certainly agree that the scope of the problem has no reliable stats. Figuring out the logistics of how to do this however, is something I don't envy you. ;) Good luck with it. I think the idea is a good one and I certainly agree that the scope of the problem has no reliable stats.

Figuring out the logistics of how to do this however, is something I don’t envy you. ;)

Good luck with it.

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