My original post on the Greatest Real Estate Agent in the World contest generated quite a few comments. A good chunk of them were a couple of individuals talking smack at each other, but there were a few others that are worth discussing.
Towards the end of the comments, Paul posted the following:
Well I did notice that you are ranking number 2 for this contest. So does that mean you are in the fight to be the best real estate agent in the world?
And my response was:
If by “in the fight” you mean am I actively participating in the contest, then the answer is no. The only effort I’ve expended is writing this post. Where it ends up will be determined solely by the level of authority this site has. I can’t imagine that it will hold up in the long run because I haven’t recruited an army of friends to go out and drop anchor text on every spammy do follow blog on the web.
But the fact that this page is doing so well without all the effort being put into the other pages is actually a valuable lesson for most agents. Unfortunately, very few will get it.
After that comment, Eric Bramlett (the contest creator) responded with:
Come on, man…this is some great linkbait. You’re naturally garnering links all over the place by taking the contrary position. If there’s a lesson to be learned here, it’s “write linkbait, not spam.” I’m sure your blog carries weight on its own, but you’re ranking b/c people are linking.
Come on Eric. Suggesting that my post is somehow winning the “link war” is just ridiculous.
As I write this, Yahoo is showing 869 links to my post (excluding pages on this site). The vast majority of those links came from my post appearing in the Bloodhound Blog’s Long List. That list is distributed to other sites via a php based (server side) widget. My post was written on the 13th, and found its way into the Long List on the 14th. (I didn’t submit it, nor did I ask anyone to submit it for me).
Because the widget shows only a set amount of the most current posts, the links eventually disappear. (In my case, that has already happened.)
Now, for the sake of argument, let’s say that distribution in the BHB Long List was in fact solely responsible for my post hitting #3. 869 links sure sounds like a lot, but it’s not really when you take a closer look. The total number of links reported is due to the fact that the widget creates site wide links on all the sites that use it. But the total number of unique domains that show up in my backlinks is actually very small. That’s important, because we don’t want any agents reading this to walk away thinking that a high volume of links coming from a single domain is treated the same way as the same number of links coming from unique sites, because that simply isn’t true.
If you move on and look at the remaining links, you’ll see that many are either nofollow, or they use some anchor text other than “Greatest Real Estate Agent in the World.”
Now let’s take a look Eric Blackwell’s (The contest leader) backlinks. Yahoo is showing 3,240 backlinks.
Eric also has links from BHB’s Long List, but his are still active. In theory, those should go away by Monday. (But based on this post, plus a couple of private emails, I wouldn’t be surprised if it somehow found a way to stick around for a couple of months:)).
The rest of Eric’s links are a combination of various agent sites and pages on “free sites.” that are owned/created by the members of Eric’s “team.” Even if you take the BHB links out, he still ends up having far more links from unique domains, and virtually all of his links contain the exact phrase. With all that extra work you might expect a huge difference in rankings between the two pages, but there isn’t. His post is sitting a #1, and mine is currently #4.
So does that mean Eric is a bad person, or his SEO strategy is inherently evil? Of course not. Although I haven’t personally met Eric, everyone I know who knows him says he’s a standup guy. But the purpose of this contest is supposed to be teaching and learning, so I do think it’s valid to point out a couple of possible wrong conclusions a new agent watching from the sidelines may draw.
Strategy Viability – There isn’t really anything bad about Eric’s strategy as it applies to this contest. In fact, the “team” strategy is by far the most commonly use strategy in the history of SEO contests. But the problem is it just isn’t applicable to most real-world situations. I mean seriously, think about how far you would get trying to ask a bunch of people to invest significant time for free, in exchange for a link that they will get only after you have achieved a #1 ranking for your money phrase for two months. I’m sorry, but it just doesn’t work that way. And even if a newbie agent realized that the contest examples are extreme, there still isn’t any place for them to end up other than the conclusion that the best thing to do is swap links. And that’s not a place they need to be.
Building Authority – I think much of the examples in the contest do nothing but reinforce the common misconception within the real estate space that dropping keyword stuffed links on some of the most spam infested domains on the web, somehow contributes to building authority. That’s a complete load of crap. Building authority involves investing the time necessary to develop a strong content distribution network powered by other humans. Whether or not my original post was intended to be linkbait isn’t really the important point. The real takeaway is understanding that the success or failure of a piece of linkbait is directly related to the size, strength, and quality of your distribution network. And gaining links by pushing content through that distribution network never involves asking anyone for anything.
In the end, the question you really need to ask yourself is where do you want to be down the road? Someone who operates a site where link building consists of pressing the publish button, or someone who has to constantly be asking for a helping hand?
Comments
33 Responses to “ The Greatest Real Estate Agent in the World Contest Part 2 ”
Got something to say?
…and never asking anyone for anything means you have to possess authority in what you write, and your online presence as a whole. Which you have obviously mastered.
Or as you so masterfully put it - “where link building consists of pressing the publish button.”
That old adage, “do what you love and the money will follow” definitely applies to this. Of course, switch out the appropriate words
“(But based on this post, plus a couple of private emails, I wouldn’t be surprised if it somehow found a way to stick around for a couple of months:)).”
No sir. I’m a fan, not a cheater. Fascinating reading, though.
Great post Greg, very well written! Most important you’re bringing up solid points.
While some aspects of todays’ online real estate marketing work for real estate agents, most of them have very little to no clue on how things actually work. This contest has very little value as far as SEO goes, and no value as far as real estate goes. I know that realtors are very competitive, so why won’t you compete for real leads from your sites and real closings - that would be a great contest and great lesson to learn.
Hi Greg;
warning-long comment ahead-
I agree with the majority of what you have written and (since the goal of the contest is education) appreciate the chance to respond, correct a few misconceptions about what I am doing, and advance some of what you said.
@ Natural Authority of a Domain– You are absolutely correct here EricOnSearch is a WordPress blog (much like yours) that was created right at a year ago. So why did I use that domain instead of others that I could have?
Well, first off, I wanted to test myself. I am competing with other domains that have tons more authority and longevity than mine. ALL of them have been around longer. I wanted to see if i could transfer MY authority (that comes from real relationships with many in the online real estate world) into online authority fast enough to create a competitive entry It is DIFFICULT to do this against the likes of ARDELL, and Ryan and you (and yeah..I realize that you are not competing…) and Jay Thompson…et al…but hopefully I have earned some street cred in the attempt…and hopefully, we will win. (grin) I also wanted to demonstrate that toolbar PR (currently PR2) doesn’t mean much. And yes, it should improve on the next update. But the fact is, some folks still worry more about the toolbar than the SERPS. Bad idea IMO.
So far I am doing OK at that. FTR I am NOT offering a future linkback from my blog. At least not a do follow one. It WILL be no followed. I was tempted to do so because a few people wanted ‘in’ to my team. I corrected that mistake publicly with posts to the Bloodhound Blog and to my REW blog. Thanks for the opportunity to correct that publicly here as well. Folks on my team are all agreed to work with me and not one has left since my correction (read: that wasn’t why they came…). I decided that if additional people were looking for backlinks in order to come, then they were coming for the wrong reason.
Another point you made…the NUMBER of links matters FAR LESS than the QUALITY and the diversity of their domains and the links themselves. I would agree with you. (read: We are not just going for links from BHB–much more on the plate than that) Please don’t think that the only thing that my “team” has planned is what we have done. May 1 is a ways away and we have lots of growth on the agenda. Anchor text also needs to be diverse in “Real World” situations. I agree with that entirely. This is not a “real world” situation…I cannot help that. I just play the cards I am dealt. May 1st is one of those cards as well. I will be building a more diverse link portfolio in that and many other regards as time goes on. My blog isn’t even about real estate…(like yours it is about SEO)…
I am sure that there will be some who build their “authority” by 301ing other domains or pages to their entry and other such stuff…all done right before the deadline (or not…). They are adapting to that “real world” situation as well. Is what it is.
One more thought on teams working together. Collaboration has many benefits. The reason my team is solid in promoting my entry is that we are learning together along the way. One of the side benefits for team members like Greg Swann (who commented above) is that we will be discussing some of the basics of what happened in this contest as part of his UNCHAINED conference in May. We are working together and trying new things out and testing stuff all the time. It is the same premise as your private forum. I think where there is trust and synergy and learning…it is a good thing.
So I guess one of the bones that I have to pick (just a minor one–grin) with your characterization of my efforts is the misconception that they stop at me asking them to get links for me. They do not. I am not the Pied Piper. (grin) We are a team that is learning together and I value their input and ideas on what we do. My guess is that you learn and get creative ideas as well from your private forum? I do as well from mine. The synergy alone was worth the time I am spending on the contest.
I agree totally with your analysis of the BHB links by the way…and no, as Greg Swann said, I have never asked for (nor would he give me) any special treatment. I could make the case that I have actually earned some preference since I contribute regularly to his blog, as opposed to someone “link hunting”. But your point is well made there and I agree with it. His “long list” clears out weekly.
As to the point about Squidoo …I agree with you (to an extent…) on that. Squidoo recently went through a number of changes to help prevent wholesale use of their site by spammers.
An additional point on Building authority…I am a moderator on REW (arguably the most trafficked real estate marketingforum on the web)…I am a regular contributor to the Bloodhound Blog…I have participated with the total intent of helping REALTORS understand the basics of search engines as well as comment on the business aspects of online real estate. I (personally speaking) think that adds much more than waiting for a post on a blog like BHB to get some age on it and then posting a lame comment on it with keyword infested anchor text. Methinks thou dost protest too much there, my friend.
As I have said elsewhere, I never have claimed to be perfect…but I think I have earned as best I can, the authority I have created. I think that the argument that comment spam deserves to outrank it is a difficult one to make…
Greg, one thing that I really do agree with you on was your comment that much of your last post was taken up by folks talking smack. I think the industry is best served by people hating less and creating and innovating more. Things are competitive out there, but they do not need to be combative. (Kinda the Rodney King approach to SEO–”Why can’t we all just get along…”
As one of the guys in your private forum, Glenn Ginsburg, and I discussed via email…he used the term “humanizing the internet”. I like that… I met a lot of great people while I was at PubCon…he was one of them.
Thanks a ton for letting me comment on your blog…and thanks for your continuing coverage of the contest.
Have a great day.
Eric Blackwell
After re-reading my comment, I wish to clarify two things that I may not have written clearly:
1) I was certainly not accusing you of “link hunting” . My point is only that it was submitted (likely) by someone who is not a contributor to BHB.
and
2) I also was not saying that you are “comment spamming”. (I was commenting on that as a technique in general.)
I hope this clarifies that.
Best;
Eric
FTR I am NOT offering a future linkback from my blog. At least not a do follow one.
Fair enough. I stand corrected.
I was certainly not accusing you of “link hunting” . My point is only that it was submitted (likely) by someone who is not a contributor to BHB.
The only comment I’ve ever posted at BHB was in the post where I was mentioned. That comment (like any other comment I leave) used only my name, so I’m not sure what you are referring to. What is the url?
Greg;
Sorry for the confusion or lack of clarity there, Greg. No, I now realize that you have only commented as yourself (and that’s how I do it as well…)….and I read (after my comment… that you did not enter your post into the “long list” nor ask anyone to do it for you…feel free to edit that piece out of my comment (grin).
Fair enough…I stand corrected as well.
Good to meet you BTW…and thanks again for your coverage of the contest.
Best
Eric
Though I think the contest is too short term to really be meaningful, I think that Eric is right, some part of building authority is relationship building. I do also agree with Greg that it is very nice to be able to publish your well written articles and blog posts and contribute to building up authority.
The real takeaway is understanding that the success or failure of a piece of linkbait is directly related to the size, strength, and quality of your distribution network
I agree with you 200%.
And just to clarify, I wasn’t suggesting that you are winning any kind of “link war,” merely pointing out that publicly challenging a popular idea is a very effective linkbaiting technique (whether you intended it as bait or not.) That, and your real world authority are making the post rank, IMHO.
BTW - thank you for a great breakdown of strategy & technique. One of the biggest goals of the contest is to learn, and you’ve contributed a ton in that arena.
………….In the end, the question you really need to ask yourself is where do you want to be down the road? Someone who operates a site where link building consists of pressing the publish button, or someone who has to constantly be asking for a helping hand?……
You’re right of course…….building an publishing great content is a “linkbait” in itself. It speaks volumes that with zero effort on your part you were able to acquire so many backlinks and sit at no. 4 in the SERPs.
I agree with Max….since this contest is offering the wrong message on how to set up a SEO strategy for a website (by having backlinks from “free sites”) why not create a contest where you see who is the best person who can establish leads and close deals.
since this contest is offering the wrong message on how to set up a SEO strategy for a website
Point me to where we’ve advocated any SEO strategy for the contest? The point of the contest is to learn what is effective & ineffective SEO. I think that many contestants have already learned quite a bit about long term vs. short term strategies (thanks in a large part to this analysis.) There are many contestants, using many different strategies, and they’re all being broken down on different blogs (which, again, is the real purpose of the contest.)
FTR on Blackwell’s strategy…he’s put together a team of people that already have a TON of authority in their respective worlds. You have leaders from BHB, REW, & a slew of great individual blogs. I’m sure that if he were able to convince them to do so, he would have loved to include guys/gals from PT, Wannanetwork, etc… The point is that they’re using their collaborative, established reputations & repurposing them to make their GREAITW page rank. They’re able to do so by blogging where they blog, changing sig links in forums where they’re active, and setting up links on sites that already have authority. I can guarantee you that no one is on that team in the hopes of getting a future backlink - if they were simply after links, there are much more efficient ways to spend a couple months of their time.
Ok……point taken Eric. It does seem like a good way to analyse the effectiveness of different tactics. But I wasn’t trying to imply the contestants were in it simply for the links.
That pretty much makes Greg’s point doesn’t it? You just defined an organized link network coupled with a bit of sig spamming. What’s to learn from that, unless your a SE spam cop trolling Greg’s blog?
Great information in your post Greg. Thanks. Your continued interest in this contest tells me that you are trying to win it.
@Bob - an organized link network implies “artificially inflating page rank.” What I’ve described is blogging to an established audience, and using existing authority to increase awareness of, and links to a specific page (kinda like what Greg’s done here, except Blackwell’s using a team concept.)
I’m not sure how changing your forum signature is sig link spamming. It seems to me the term “spam” is thrown around quite a bit, and generally at whatever someone doesn’t like.
As far as learning…we have more than a few great analyses of different tactics as a result of this.
I’m not sure there are any losers here…Eric Blackwell is showing his chops in the SEO world, Greg is getting visitors to his site from a demographic that probably doesn’t come here often, Bloodhound is getting some traffic from posting about the contest, Morgan is getting plenty of attention (and even negative attention can be good from an SEO standpoint), Eric Bramlett came up with a good idea that has gone ‘viral’ at this point, and many website operators can come away with some good lessons about optimizing for keywords.
I’m not participating in the contest, as frankly I have ‘real work’ to do (grin), and any time I have I use in working on content for my own site.
I certainly do wish everyone luck, and am watching the contest with interest. I am rooting for someone, but we’ll just have to see how it works out.
BTW Greg, if you happen to win (by design or otherwise), what will you do with the proceeds?
BTW Greg, if you happen to win (by design or otherwise), what will you do with the proceeds?
Lydia, I can pretty much guarantee you that there’s no way in hell Morgan would ever award me the prize, so it isn’t something I’ve put any thought into.
I think that Greg B has already won his prize from this contest. All kinds of attention from people who otherwise would not have paid this blog any attention.
@Bob Wilson- Hi Bob.
Actually there are members of the PT forum (at least I beleive they are …) on my team…I have never asked anyone who their web provider was before offering them a chance to join Team Eric. There is no litmus test WHATSOEVER. I have purposely sought out a diverse group as much as possible.
Yes. I am a friend of Morgan’s. Proud of that. I try to be friends with everyone I meet. (Not bragging, just how I choose to live…)
In this competition though, I have (tried) to succeed by being upfront, friendly and in creating value with people from EVERY strripe of the Real Estate community (at least the online part of it.). Paying it forward, if you will.
FTR-That doesn’t give me any moral high ground. I am not looking for any. I just want the real estate sector of the net to be a little friendlier place. We all win IMO when that happens, no?
Bob, you also asked what’s to learn from that… We are continuing to learn as a team. (Probably stuff you already know, but new to me–I have been at this a lot less time than you…) The learning isn’t the only thing. It is also the relationships. I have made new friends and deepened many friendships that we already there. The team that plays together STAYS together IMO.
Bottomline, it has been valuable to me personally and I have had fun with it.
I agree with Lydia that (given that it doesn’t get carried away or taken too far), there is nothing to lose in having a little good clean fun. (Note: the caveat about getting too carried away–Greg is correct in pointing out where that happened during previous SEO contest attempts IMO).
Hope things are great in San Diego. Weather has GOT to be warmer than here (grin)
Best;
Eric
>I’m not sure how changing your forum signature is sig link spamming
You mean changing your sig from your name or site to a wholly unrelated key word laden anchor text link to another page?
>It seems to me the term “spam” is thrown around quite a bit, and generally at whatever someone doesn’t like.
Assuming that someone is Matt Cutts or one of his spam team members, i would agree.
>There is no litmus test WHATSOEVER
I never suggested that there was. What I asked is what is there to learn from this that isn’t already out there in the public domain?
>All kinds of attention from people who otherwise would not have paid this blog any attention
Boyer, I doubt Greg would be hurt if you quit paying attention.
Bob, I am not trying to pick a fight with you, I wish you would take the same approach, It would make for a much more pleasant and useful blog post.
I am sure Greg will agree that I have not gone out of my way to be mean to anyone on his blog. Have you??
[...] what it is worth, on my Google DC today I noticed a HUGE drop in pages indexed for the search term Greatest Real Estate Agent In The World. Now I have no idea what that means but I am so happy I am not involved with this contest in any [...]
Greg do you have any comment on why the pages indexed in Google for the contest search term “Greatest Real Estate Agent In The World” are dropping off at such a high rate of speed? My DC shows only 660,000 results now.
BTW – You are doing well (#3 and #4) in the contest on my DC for “The Greatest Real Estate Agent In The World” but #9 when you leave the “the” off and just use the search term “Greatest Real Estate Agent In The World”. I am pretty sure that the contest has the term without “the” tacked on the front.
~Mack
Mack, I actually hadn’t paid much attention to page counts. What was the highest amount you saw?
“where do you want to be down the road? Someone who operates a site where link building consists of pressing the publish button, or someone who has to constantly be asking for a helping hand?”
Sadly, I think that there will be people on both sides for a long time. As for who are the winners of this. I somehow agree with Lydia, there are no losers. Everything relies on each one’s perception.
Greg for the term “The Greatest Real Estate Agent In The World” I have seen it as high as 7,000,000+. That was actually the term I kept checking on.
For the search term “Greatest Real Estate Agent In The World” that I just started checking last night there were over 1.2 mil results. The pages indexed for that term have been cut almost in half in less than 24 hours. Time to worry?
BTW – In part 1 I posted a comment (at the bottom) that left a link to a 404 – sorry ‘bout that I had no way to edit.
~Mack
When I checked this morning there were 7,140,000 results in Google for the keyword phrase Greatest Real Estate Agent In The World.
~Mack
Bro you rock. Great post. I don’t get over here as much as I would like anymore but your sarcastic approach to the stupidity that exists out there always makes me smile. Matter of fact, I included your name in my new song, The SEO Blues. You can find it here:
http://www.businessol.com/seo-blog/2008/03/seo-blues-free-mp3-music-download-by.html
Hope you dig it
Catfish
I’ve been watching with interest - today there are only 980,000 pages for the term, and this site is #1 and #2 indented. Heh…
[...] is number 1 and 2 and our greatest real estate agent in the world page is number 3. What we have to overcome [...]
Greg,
Do you have any idea how much longer the contest is supposed to go on?
~Mack
I think the end date is May 1st.
I became a sucker for SEO contest, started out with small contest when my SEO knowledge was limited, until I started winning:
1st place - hoax contest, i got fooled! Vorgermilten in 2006
1st place - SEO World Championship by Get Updated in 2007 (I won a car!)
2nd place - SEOContest2008 by UK Webmaster World (won some cash)
When I heard about this contest: “Greatest Real Estate Agent in the World Contest” I decided not to join right away. Because the words were just real English words, dictionary words and most probably after the contest ended, many people that join this contest will have sites ranking for various real estate terms.
And for someone looking for real good real estate related sites, it can be annoying for them just to find out they found sites all about SEO. Or maybe about real estate but did not have good content since the site was really made for SEO. but of course I am sure there were people that joined the contest with good real estate content and value but I don’t want the SERPs to get dirty too with tons of SEO sites.
And the more and more I join contest, the more and more I realize they are not really important and does not prove you are better than the real professional SEOs. But I still do them for the prize, for the recognition because the common person still thinks I am super good in SEO because I won *LOL* makes marketing easier and just want to have fun. But the keyword should not be disturbing any existing industry online.