I try very hard to stay away from the drama that constantly engulfs Morgan Carey and Real Estate Webmasters. But this one is worth commenting on because it’s such a great example of what not to do.
Late last night, members of REW’s forum started posting that they weren’t finding REW in Google searches. This morning my inbox was full of emails asking if I thought they were penalized. After conducting a few searches on their most popular terms, it appears that they have been tossed in the penalty box. Not only are they not showing up, there seems to be an across-the-board toolbar adjustment as well.
Morgan’s reaction was to write a very long post that outlines his penalty assessment process. While discussing REW blogs, he quotes from his TOS the section that clearly explains REW’s strict stance on behavior intended to manipulate SERPS:
"Search engines: REW blogs perform very well in search engines - this is due in no small part to the fact that our authors write high quality (Unique) content that does not violate any search engines guidelines and is often referenced from other sources on the web. Our rules against link spam and other forms of search engine spam or low quality advertising posts ensure that REW Blogs are able to maintain their authoritative status by providing our readership with the highest quality (Unique) content possible. It is also very important that these rules and regulations are strictly enforced so that search engines can trust that they are indexing and ranking high quality "Human" contributed, edited and moderated content. Link schemes: Any attempt to artificially inflate page rank or link popularity is not welcome here. Search engines frown upon this kind of behavior, and it does nothing for the user experience - when a link is placed in any section of REW Blogs (In a post, in the relevant reading section, in the related links of a post) it should be done so for the sole benefit of the user, and NOT to send yourself link juice / page rank."
He also goes on to say:
Just to be clear directory aside - Real Estate Webmasters does not participate in any kind of link exchange (Solicitation or otherwise) on our domain http://www.realestatewebmasters.com. We do not sell links from our domain http://www.realestatewebmasters.com, we don’t buy links, we don’t spam comments with our links - in fact - we are so damn busy building technology for our clients that we wouldn’t have the time to go out and try to get links even if we wanted to - it’s the old "The carpenter’s house is in the worst shape in the neighborhood
By the time you get to the end, you walk away thinking that the penalty is definitely undeserved. But here’s the flaw in Morgan’s post:
He is making the assumption that any penalty that might be imposed would be directly related to guideline violations involving the REW site. It would be great if that’s how it always worked, but that just isn’t the case. (If you don’t think that’s true, just ask Bob Massa). Occasionally, search engines do issue penalties for general behavior that shows an overall disregard for the sanctity of their guidelines. And when that behavior is a direct contradiction to their constant flow of pro-guideline public spin, the penalties can be quite severe.
Here’s an example: (from an email being sent out by REW staff)
My name is Nick May. I am a Link Manager for Real Estate Webmasters. I am emailing you today to introduce a new, free system we have developed, based on contextual-quality links. This system is designed to put more focus on a fewer amount of links, as they would be located on pages full of content, relative to the site. Instead of having links placed in directories, 5 links will be placed on an already established contextually relevant page. Our format will be a bit different than the format you use. Your links, on our pages, will appear as comments and we will be using your keywords as the commenter’s name. You add 5 of our clients to one of your content pages and in return, we will add your site to each of those client’s sites, on a content filled page. This is just an introductory email to let you know a little bit about it. This system is working for our clients and I have some examples to show you, if you’re interested. Email me back and I will fill you in with all the information you need. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope you will take part in this excellent new program.
(Emphasis Mine)
OK, so last spring many of REW’s clients got in trouble for cross-linked directories. Now, six months later REW staff members are sending out dozens of these emails (and have been since last June) offering to create fake blog comments stuffed with your desired keywords in exchange for you putting back the links that used to be in the spam directories that caused all the trouble in the first place.
So how is it Morgan forgot to mention these emails in his public plea to Matt? Is this employee sending these emails without Morgan’s knowledge? (Maybe it’s the same employee that hacked into the PREN Forum?) Or maybe he thinks there’s no way Google would know about these emails? I have no idea for sure, but you at least have to give him some credit. It takes a lot of balls to stand up in public and declare to the world that your shit doesn’t stink, even when so many people know it does.
Comments
45 Responses to “ Real Estate Webmasters Banned by Google ”
Got something to say?
http://www.metroseo.com/2008/01/25/google-cleans-up-real-estate/
We must be soulmates Greg
Thank you for bringing this to the general SEO attention. You have a bigger microphone than I do.
This is way I got the hell away from anything relating to Morgan Carry at the cost of 1000’s of dollars to me and my business. (Converting sites built by him into custom CMS)
I have been saying for a long time that Google should punish REW and not the REALTOR that believe what they are doing is ok because there SEO tells them to.
Good Job Google Spam Team!
There are hundreds of websites selling links or link schemes in some way. I have always been surprised that Google didn’t nuke them all. They nuked TLA but seemed to stop there.
Sorry Sam, I disagree. His clients are willing participates and are NOT blameless. Morgan has been hit before by Google and rebounded off the backs of REALTORS® and their websites. In all likelihood he will again unless his client base diminishes.
Most of Morgan’s clients are fully aware of and defend his unethical practices. Sooner or later they will get burned. It is inevitable.
As long as his clients rank well Morgan Carey will continue to have a cult like following IMHO and others will continue to emulate his practices in an effort to achieve rankings regardless of right or wrong. When bad behavior is rewarded it simply promotes more bad behavior.
BTW Greg – I am certain that another overzealous un-named employee sent those emails out and will be severely chastised by Morgan (he will, won’t he?).
Mack
Greg,
I just did a search for “webmasters real estate” and you are at #3 and 4. Your microphone is pretty powerful.
Looks like someone needs to work on reputation management.
Illegal & Illicit vs Who’s Getting Paid?…
…
I’ve received that email too, only it was left in a contact form on one of my other websites. I just had to roll my eyes and laugh, thinking “here we go again”.
Additionally, I have to agree with Mack. I think most, if not all, of the REW clients know that this new link scheme is just as bad as when everyone was doing state page link exchanges.
I used to be a member at REW number 13 I think. I used to post under the user name 2savvy until i was kicked off the forum. I think when members agreed that I was the most experienced in terms of seo , internet marketing knowledge and real estate. combined with my website http://www.realtywebmasters.com he didn’t care for that .
Anyway if someone wants to moderate a “positive” forum. I will put one up on realtywebmasters.com I am just to busy to give it much time. I put in at least 60-70 hours a week right now.
Karma?
Vegas Mack:
I think I have heard you use the “cult like following” phrase before when referring to Morgan. Do you really think that to be true?
You also wrote:
“Most of Morgan’s clients are fully aware of and defend his unethical practices.”
I am aware of their link building program and am not currently using it. I certainly don’t defend it. Ever since I was penalized last spring for state pages and too many reciprocal link exchanges I don’t plan to “game google” anymore.
Interesting. I currently see this post at #1 and another one from this blog at #2 in Google for “Real Estate Webmasters.”
Looks like REW is back in SERPS but the green bar is still gray.
I received the emails mentioned for the link exchange but decided not to participate because of the issues many saw with the state pages.
Myrtle.. I see it #1 too. That can’t be good for business.
I’d think with the penalties last year, and now this, the REW clients would be a little concerned about their sites and advice they are receiving.
Looks like REW is back …
The are occasionally returning for their name (I’m not seeing them at the moment) but they’re no where for any of the other phrases they used to rank for.
Greg – Yes REW is in and out of Google here on my DC.
Marc – Yes I do believe he has a cult like following. This is demonstrated every time he gets caught in any wrong doing and his followers attack anyone that dares to mention it. There are some fairly derogatory posts currently about Greg in REW over this latest episode. Followers defend indefeasible antics by Carey even to the detriment of their own reputations. This behavior was clearly evident when the PREN Forum was hacked by REW. Many blindly follow marching orders from MC and give him large sums of money. So it sounds “cult like” to me.
I did say most of Morgan’s clients defend his unethical practices, not all of them do and you do appear to be one of the smarter ones Marc.
There was a time I felt sorry for anyone that got burned by Morgan. But now there is more than enough information out there on Morgan Carey that when someone raises their tent in the REW camp they have no right to complain about the fleas IMHO.
Mack
Do we know if this is affecting the sites of participating Realtors® yet? *It seems likely to be the next logical step for Google to take*
VegasMack said:
“I did say most of Morgan’s clients defend his unethical practices, not all of them do and you do appear to be one of the smarter ones Marc.”
Thank you Mack.
As you know I don’t want to get caught up in the drama. I just want to rank well and sell real estate.
As a realtor fighting for rank against other realtors who have REW sites in my market, i’ve become a little familiar with REW approach. Now, keep in mind that i’m a realtor first and a technologist second, but it is not so much the link program that REW is running (i’ve been getting these emails for over a year), it is more so the way they are gaming google with their idx solution.
Most REW websites are hosted on REW’s servers and share direct access to all the MLS data. These sites do NOT incorporate the REW idx solution thru an iframe; they just reference the idx solution on the same domain/virtual server.
This has the advantage that all the MLS data (city names, street names, neighborhood names) are getting indexed. Then the REW realtors build a bunch (10’s, 100’s) of pre-built queries with mod-rewrite rules and stick these queries in their sidebars. google apparently follows all these links and indexes all the mls data, which i believe improves the ranking of the REW site. At the end of the day though, there is not value added content by the REW realtor.
That practice is equally a deceptive as the link exchange.
RE: “It takes a lot of balls to stand up in public and declare to the world that your shit doesn’t stink, even when so many people know it does.”
It sounds like Morgan has taken PR advice from baseball players like Raphael Palmero and Barry Bonds who took a similar position when asked if they used performance enhancing drugs. At least Morgan is not testifying in front of a Federal Grand Jury..
This isn’t the only group trying it … I’ll have to look back for the post but there was another set of keyword packed bogus comments called out about a month ago.
From early 05-06, REW was where all our “serious” competitors used to go to hang out, badmouth our company and buy/trade links.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA arrgh my abdomen hurts from LAUGHING SO FREAKIN HARD. Damn this is just too hilarious.
Greg, your REW posts always brighten my day. Please continue!
@Kevin That practice is equally a deceptive as the link exchange.
I don’t think I’d go that far. Google did recently add a statement to their guidelines that says they don’t want to crawl search results. But I have yet to see them enforce it. And if they do, they should start with eBay, the New York Times, etc. Sites like that are responsible for millions of SERP pages found in Google’s index.
So until they show some legitimate effort in that area, I’m staying on the side that says leveraging your idx is just smart SEO.
Greg – “So until they show some legitimate effort in that area, I’m staying on the side that says leveraging your idx is just smart SEO.”
I agree.
Marc – You are welcome and Happy Birthday BTW.
Mack
One man’s “smart SEO” is another man’s “gaming google.”
It might be smart SEO, but from a user (and competitor’s) perspective it adds no value. What is the benefit of having pre-defined, essentially static, search results on pre-formated pages when you have a perfectly functioning idx for that (dynamic) purpose.
Where is the subject matter expertise that is supposed to be so valued. I can only hope that users barf on it even if google is not currently barfing.
Perhaps i just have idx-envy…i’d probably do the same thing if i could actually host the idx data on my site. I just hope i’d be a little more creative about it…try to add some value somewhere, ya know?
It might be smart SEO, but from a user (and competitor’s) perspective it adds no value.
You have absolutely zero information to support the statement that it adds no value to the user. The only legitimate way to even make an educated guess would be to view conversion data from the site in question.
LOL. You always make me laugh with the stuff you uncover dude. Rock on!
Realtors are real estate experts - not SEO experts. I would hesitate to lay the blame on them. REW clients pay Morgan and his team to make good SEO decisions for them since they don’t have the time or the knowledge to do it themselves.
I do know that REW has been deleting context links on their client websites. I don’t know if they are notifying those clients of that activity.
More importantly, I DO know that non-paying websites that participated in the context link program were NOT told that their links were being deleted. Why? Because I had some myself from quite a long time ago. I still had the list from Nick of where my links where, and they are no longer there. This is giving his paying clients a pretty nice set of one-way links I’m sure- while hanging the rest of the group (those that aren’t his PAYING clients) out to dry if a penalty comes along.
What is interesting is that I haven’t seen a peep about deleting context/comment links in the REW forums. Nada. Nothing. I think that is a bit strange, don’t you?
I know of some people that had posted on forum, and then posts disappeared. But MC is protecting his clients, and possible link scheme.
I guess he (Morgan) is learning some new stuff this week…. Webkarma
Luv ya work Mr Boser!!!! Thanks for this post
In regards to the deleting of contextual links, Morgan has put out a blog post on REW this morning about the cancellation of the program. I was part of the contextual link program and didn’t have a problem with it when it was purely contextual. I had not paid close attention to the reciprocal links until a week or so ago and that was when I noticed that the format on his clients sites changed into fabricated comments. I had my concerns about that new format and just had a bad feeling about it. Guess my gut was right…..I just hope that none of the Realtors that own these sites experience any adverse effects from this now cancelled program.
Lydia.. same thing happened to me back when the state pages were all over the web. my links were deleted from REW’s clients sites and their main directory without notification. I brought it up on their forums, he said he had sent a pm on the forum which, of course, I never received. Needless to say, I have a very low opinion of their tactics and cronic dishonesty and decided long ago not to have anything to do with them.
Mack, most of the REW sites I’ve checked have taken down the “contextual” links. After the penalty hit, I’m sure everyone thought it wise to remove those links, since they can be considered a grey area. Lydia, you won’t see anything posted, but those links have been removed.
Kevin,
I think you do have IDX envy.
I can tell you from having pre-arranged searches on my site for years and numerous emails from visitors that they love them. Give the consumer what they want and they will come back. Google wants the best and most informative/authoritative websites to rank well. Having a seamless IDX to a website simply improves your site by giving the visitor what they desire - to look at homes for sale.
Thanks Mack.
Looks like Morgan made a serious enemy over all of this recenly. This afternoon I deleted a post by a guy that registered under the name of “banned-by-rew” for his very lengthy, very angry, and yet very detailed rant about REW link methods. The user even uploaded a snapshot showing hidden links in his template and other bizzar code which should not be there.
Maybe the whole story isn’t being told! Maybe this lose cannon has some validity to his claim. I use the term “lose cannon” because this person, apparently and obviously angry individual had been banned for joining an competing forum in South Carolina only to have his REW status terminated.
But if there are hidden link schemes and other types of deceptive code in sites that would lend some to this issue I would guess.
I tend to agree with the above posts that active site owners should be conscious of their own SEO prowess and should take an active roll in how content is published.
Great site BTW Greg, I’m a frequent visitor.
Ahahahah, you have to laugh. I hate getting those spammy emails asking for back links which are so obviously copy and paste jobs. The sad part is that they must work to a degree, or people wouldn’t do it.
The irony of the situation here is that REW seem to be at least admitting to it! Most of the one’s I get are from hotmail or gmail accounts, with dodgy English names like “Fred Singh”, claiming to be Link Managers acting on behalf of someone else. Normally when you research these link directories you find some nefarious means to having gained their page rank. The Way Back When machine is a boon for this kind of investigation.
Still, if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you should at least have the decency to take your punishment. Shame on REW.
P.S. Love the shot of you getting strangled by Matt Cutts, that’s a classic!
Interesting post Greg. I googled “real estate webmasters” to figure out what was going on with their network and this blog was #1.
I agree with Marc. The websites in which the consumer can gain the most authoritive and comprehensive information on a given subject will always rise to the top in google. Having great information and a seemless IDX is a powerful combination that keeps the consumer coming back for more.
Just a quick update about REW : they have deleted all the links to their Contextual link partners (all the fake blog entries) and of course, without telling anyone so they can benefit the link juice as long as they are able to fool people. That’s not the first time they are doing this. Last year they discontinued their Link Exchange program the same way. Anyways, I hope their clients will understand who they really are and what are their practices.
This at least the 3rd time Morgan has been punished by Google, so those that do business with him take a certain amount of risk.
It would be safe to assume that REW forums are not under any search engine’s radar. Those with more than a nominal amount of posts there probably won’t get to hide behind the “I’m just a real estate agent and don’t know anything about about SEO” excuse.
I have to say that I find this post a little disturbing. I have a REW site, and visit the forums frequently. I feel that the overall REW community has a lot to offer. I myself don’t participate in the Link Exchange program, nor do I write spammy blogs. A lot of my competetion pays for links and uses unethical SEO practices, and I can’t wait for the day that they get penalized. But I, along with other REW members, play the SEO game with ethics, and I’m there to soak up information and share experiences.
I myself don’t participate in the Link Exchange program, nor do I write spammy blogs.
What exactly is it that you find disturbing? Did someone here accuse you writing spammy blogs?
I think kevin may have a little IDX envy as well.
Anyway Real Estate Webmasters seems to be back in Googles index, at least when you search for their name.
I am not a SEO customer of theirs and have to say that I noticed the fake blog post thing on one of my local competitors sites and thought very tacky and very spammy.
Anyway, it looks like life goes on, and the competition moves forward.
It amused me to stumble over this blog post. I’m the programmer who wrote the comments system REW uses. It was understood from Carey on down that the purpose of the comments system was to permit REW staff to enter links that would look like comments into a page. Does REW game Google? Absolutely. This has nothing to do with a rogue employee.
Dylan,
Just build yourself a great website with a great property search (most buyers want to see that first). Have more content than all of your competitors. Prove yourself to be an authority on the market you service. Get some links the right way and eventually (if you aren’t already) you will be found on Google.
Forget all of the drama between the players here. It is a waste of your time.
Dylan, Just keep building up your site, and hopefully Google will see that you are doing the right things, and if your local competitors are doing the wrong things, then they will take the hit, and have spent lots of money doing it.
Hello all. Please don’t try to find my website as I just decided to “stop the bleeding” with REW. I have never in all my life made such a poor business decision by purchasing my SEO and website creation through this compan in 2006. Marc R., I spoke with you and you gave me a good recommendation and I am here to tell you - I certainly don’t hold it against you - but the are the absolute worst. I was expected to learn a new field of SEO and all kinds of webpage “guru” stuff, and at the same time paying them LOADS of money. This company nickle and dimes, does NOT deliver what they promise and quote, and my site never went anywhere. For almost $15,000, I shouldn’t have had to lift a finger on my site (my opinion). I have never sold a home from my website either - which makes it even worse. If I wanted to design webpages and be a genius in the SEO field, I would change professions. I hope any realtor contemplating REW reads this post. I’ll hurl my url and use pay per click, but as far as SEO - I’m scarred.